Phil Passera unboxes everything in this extensive interview with the songwriter behind Payfone before they arrive at Jaeger this week.
Payfone is a great example of the idea that if you stick with it and believe in it, people will flock to it. Phil Passera and Jimmy Day’s disco-leaning project has been around for just over a decade and although they have never had that “hit,”, they have garnered a dedicated and large audience. Tracks like “International Smark” and “Paradise” have stood the test of time, and Payfone’s appeal has only grown as their music has matured.
They’ve never capitulated to trends – in fact, Phil and Jimmy are more likely to avoid temporal shifts in taste – and the duo seems to have maintained their unique take on Disco from that first record to the last. It’s hardly rudimentary or formulaic, and yet Payfone’s cohesive sonic approach has only solidified around their releases.
Their next release reiterates the sentiment in what would essentially be their debut LP, “Lunch.“ At a glance, it’s a chuggy, downtempo affair with all those idiosyncrasies that make Payfone unique. Analogue and warm, with the bass guitar’s mass anchoring everything around it, Lunch’s seductive charm bounces between body-shaking grooves, delicate melodies, and soulful vocals.
The album follows a compilation celebrating ten years of the group and a couple of singles from Phil’s label, Otis, in an output that has remained consistent yet reserved over their tenure. Upon arriving on streaming services, the largely physical format project has amassed millions of streams, with their music hitting an evocative and instinctive nerve for many.
Between Jimmy Day and Phil Passera, Phil is the writing force behind the project, with an extensive career in music going back to the nineties. A multi-instrumentalist, DJ, and songwriter, he’s been through it all, and when he’s not playing live as Payfone or recording new music with Jimmy, he’s DJing or collecting music.
With an upcoming live performance from Payfone at Jaeger, I call him up in his home in Barcelona and find an excited Phil eager to share his thoughts on everything from politics to club culture.
From his views on Palestine – “I have to say I’m absolutely disgusted by Tom York, playing in Israel now. Talk about reading the room” – to his bugbears like Discogs DJs – “You’re gonna play a whole set from your Discogs wanted list to prove to other DJs how on the money you are. None of the crowd gives a fuck about your high-brow Discogs selection” – Phil is honest and open about his thoughts.
I find a person as passionate about his beliefs and music as any. He comes to Jaeger this week with April Pittmann and Joseph Gabriel Harris as the live band, and in the context of a club setting, my first question takes me back to a recent interview with Phil.
I was reading a piece on Test Pressing, where you said you’ve come to the realisation that Payfone’s music is not really for the club. What brought you to that conclusion?
When I do go and listen to Disco DJs or go to clubs, what I tend to hear is way more formulaic. The standard thing will be a faster tempo than Payfone. We’ve never gone above 120, and our average BPM is about 114. If you go to a club, it’s going to be around 126, even if it’s Disco.
A lot of DJs are under this idea that to get people dancing, you need to play dance music, which is not true at all.
If we made simple, clubby, instrumental disco, people would play us a lot more in the club. That’s not what we do. We are making music to listen to before and after you go to the club.
The most club track we’ve got is “Catholic Central” (we’ll be doing it in Oslo).
Is it more about the context of the club today, or has it been the case all along, even when a track like “Catholic Central” was new?
This was never going to be a House music thing; I’m not a fan of House music. Jimmy is more so. What we aimed to do with Payfone is something original in the Disco genre. We were going to have to take risks. Our first release, “International Smark,” that’s a bizarre, risky song.
Initially, nobody noticed that song, but over time it picked up a fan base. The second track was “Paradise” (Golf Channel). It was a big leap and a different style to “Smark,” and again, it didn’t reach an immediate audience, and the audience grew.
I knew at the time that they were great tracks and really fresh, but I also didn’t know how it would be received. If you want to release something that was going to be played by all the DJs around, you just have to make something that’s exactly like what’s out there at the moment.
What’s happened over the last decade is that these records have found their audience. We’ll do an upbeat record, and then a downtempo record, and then we’ll do a record with a full song with good lyrics, not just makeshift words. I don’t see many people doing that.
What were the defining factors in getting to Payfone as a fully formed project, and had Jimmy always been a part of it?
Yes, I started it with Jimmy, and I went alone for a few years, and then I let him back in. We’ve been working together again since Sofian. Payfone is better with Jimmy on board.
Did you have the songs ready ahead of actually starting the project?
I had been asked to do a remix of Black Devil Disco Club, under my previous alias, Leon Lace. It’s a masterpiece record, like an abstract Kraftwerk. We put it out on the b-side of “International Smark”; it’s called “Subconscious Lamentation.” It’s the first thing me and Jimmy did together. We did it as a remix, but it’s like 95% original. We both were very excited about what we did, and I said, “Let’s do a double act, something new, together.”
“Smark” was actually the second thing we did, and the Scandinavian, Swiss-Finnish vocals came about by a beautiful accident. I brought in a session singer in Brighton called Katerina Holmenberg, and I had written something, but while she was in the studio, she started warming up by talking in Swedish/Finnish.
I scrapped everything I had planned, and I wrote something for her to do in this voice. I came up with this quirky line that I love the synthesiser and that I love Roxy Music. It was a spur-of-the-moment thing. It doesn’t make much sense, but it’s unique.
That’s the character of that track, that vocal. For non-Swedish speakers, it’s exotic, and even if you do understand the lyrics, the way Katerina expresses them is quite unusual.
A key ingredient in music is mystery. There’s music you would’ve been listening to since you were a teenager, and there are going to be certain parts in the song that you are going to be uncertain about what the lyrics actually are. Instead of taking away from the song, it adds to your intrigue.
Besides vocals, the bass plays a distinct role in the creation of your music. Is that you playing the bass on the tracks?
Yes, I’m originally a bass player, and Jimmy is a keys player. Whether it’s key bass or live bass, one of us will come up with a footprint.
Do you do it as a jam session, playing together in a room?
We have done that, but because I’m in Barcelona and Jimmy is in Brighton, it’s not always practical. Jimmy is very much the studio head; he’s got a fantastic studio. We record in a completely analogue fashion: live and on tape.
Listening to your newest track and the first single off the new LP, “Wild Butterfly,” what struck me was the saxophone. I believe that’s the first instrument you learned to play, is that correct?
I did. I was ten years old. I just bought my first cassette; it was Brothers in Arms, Dire Straits.
That record just turned 40 this month.
Track 2 is “Your Latest Trick,” and it starts with this cheesy Kenny G sax solo, and I thought, “I’m gonna learn the saxophone.” You could apply to schools in England at the time, and they would supply the instrument and the teacher. (It doesn’t happen anymore, sadly. I’ve been watching the demise of England over the last 20 years, and it’s shocking.)
I played the saxophone for six years, sold the saxophone and then bought a bass and started a band immediately.
What kind of band was that?
It was an indie punk band called MEAT, and our influences were My Bloody Valentine, the Pixies, and the Wedding Present.
You were also DJing early too, thanks to your older brother, I understand.
My parents were not musical; the only thing they listened to was talk radio, but my mother’s father was very musical. I was the youngest of four, and I grew up in a house that had a drum kit, a piano, and my older brother (who was ten years older) had a pair of Technics 1210s, a mixer, and records. To his credit, he said I could use this, play these records, and practice.
I spent years of my teenage life messing around on records, drum kits, and pianos. Still to this day, I can’t play the piano, but I can play the drums and I can DJ, so I am happy.
This was the early nineties, right… the golden age of UK clubbing.
My brother was opening up for Fat Tony at WAG. – Fat Tony is still a DJ, and he plays at the opening of Kate Moss’ vagina. – I was 18 when I put on my first DJ night in Harrow in a venue called Trinity Bar, which is still there. It was a night of DJing music to raise money for Tibet. My first adventure into DJing was a charity fundraiser.
Talk about being political at an early age. Am I right in thinking that you often have some kind of political slant in your lyrics, or if not political, at least some kind of social commentary aspect to it?
Yes. The song, “We Are Chains,” despite having quite a following in the LGBTQ community, is about Hillary Clinton. This is the magic of music; this is how it should be. When I’m listening to Bob Dylan, I’m listening to songs that I have been listening to for twenty years, and every time I hear them, I hear something new.
For example, I spent some time with the great American folk singer Terry Callier right before his death and asked him if his song “Dancing Girl” was about the Vietnam War, and he said no, it’s about race.
That’s what songwriting is all about. When you write a song about being hungry, you don’t start off with “I’m hungry, is there any food in the house.” Then you just give it all away. You have to get people into your mindset.
It took me twenty years to learn how to write songs, and I’m very glad that I didn’t release any of those songs. I was working on it all in the background.
When you are talking about politics, does it come from some kind of personal experience, and is it ever literal?
From the first release of my label Otis, our tagline has always been “Fight for a Free Palestine,” and that was… I’ve been shouting since 2018. If anybody wants to talk about this beginning on October 7th, please let’s not have that conversation. So when you ask if I’m political, yeah, I am very political. Everything you do is political; you don’t get to opt out.
I’ve always thought the dance floor is the great political stage and something of an equaliser in terms of social schisms.
Absolutely. Look at Disco; the Disco scene was born out of a political movement.
Are you still DJing?
I’ve been DJing for 30 years, and you really only learn from DJing live. DJing is not when you can mix a few records and have a set idea. It’s when you go to a venue at 3 AM and nothing is working, and there’s no technical staff. There are punters shouting in your ear and people spilling drinks on your equipment. If you can still do it then, then you’re good.
Do you ever play Payfone when you’re DJing?
No, I feel cheesy doing it. That’s why I like doing the live shows, because the live shows are a real indulgence.
I never have a pre-planned set. I might have the first 3 songs, because it’s all about feeling the room and reacting to the crowd. It’s not about you; it’s about them. 20 years ago, I played weddings, and they are the best way to learn your craft. You’ve got a hundred people in the best mood; they want to dance. If they are not dancing, then you have failed. You don’t have to play wedding hits, but you have to get everybody on the dance floor.
I’m not claiming to be Harvey; if I feel it’s time to drop a piece of classical music, I’ll do it. People’s reactions are usually positive, because people are stunned. And now they are interested. I want people to just stop copying everybody else.
Recently, I was at this event called Cloud 9 in Barcelona, and people had flown in from all over the world to attend, and every song was a disappointment. Every song was a change in genre, a change in tempo; it was a complete mess.
So you still go out regularly and listen to other DJs?
Not as much as I used to, because I’m getting older.
Do you ever take anything from these nights (obviously not this last example) and does it feed into your own music or DJ sets?
The truth is, no. I’m constantly listening to music, but not a lot of modern music. I’m a big vinyl collector and vintage Jazz collector. I don’t often hear things that inspire me, but when I’m out looking for new disco records for DJing, I’ll listen to a lot of stuff and take four crates of vinyl with me. I resent the USB DJs because your convenience is everybody else’s loss. You should be suffering, and it’s got to be exciting for you as well, as a DJ.
Can I ask about the live band, who is in the band coming to Oslo?
Because Jimmy is a studio buff, he usually does the front of house, but sadly he can’t make the Oslo trip. For a year now, I’ve been working with two very talented American musicians: a singer from Brooklyn called April Pittmann and a talented bass player from North Carolina called Joseph Gabriel Harris. We play as a trio, and it’s very good. We’ve done 3 shows in the last month, and we’ve got a load after that.
And will you be performing songs from the new LP?
No, we are doing any of the new songs yet, because no one knows them. We’ve got a decade of material, so we’ll start with that, and then our next tour at the end of the year will start to incorporate some of the new ones.
All the shows so far have been a big success, so I’m really looking forward to Oslo.